fate

tessaract · Post by **tessaract** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:51 am

alright so this is why i believe in fate

everyone is born in a different environment. This environment influences you to think a certain way. Theres so many different factors to mention to determine how a person thinks, think about it what on earth brought you to this post...action and reaction. You learn from the people around you and events that you recognize from the world around you. Whatever thought you had in the past determines what thought you will have in the future. Sad to say I unfortunately believe life is one big math equation.

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scherzo · Post by **scherzo** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:12 am

IT is your destiny

huge debates on genetics vs enviroment. The main factor of wishing to believe 'fate, destiny, etc' is controlled by genetics is it escapes liability from others

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Stasi · Post by **Stasi** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:55 pm

I think the OP was referring more to an established set of world/individual variables that, were we more sophisticated, could quantify everything - derive future action for past and present quantities and values. I agree... I don't believe that fate is determined by a God-being, rather it is the fact that there is no such thing as a random event (with POSSIBLE exceptions existing in the realm of subatomic theoretical physics), and as such, if every variable, every piece of knowledge could be contained in a single system, the future could be known.

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Post by **Red Squirrel** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:11 pm

You know it to be true.

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manadren · Post by **manadren** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:51 pm

Moving this to the Debates section.

While I do agree that much of a person's future actions could be predicted if you had enough knowledge of the person's genetic makeup and social background, I think there is still an element in the human will which can, and will on occasions, defy those predictions.

In other words, with enough information, you can paint a good picture of a person's future with broad strokes, but you will never be able to get all the fine details.

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Bookworm · Post by **Bookworm** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:45 am

Stasi wrote: and as such, if every variable, every piece of knowledge could be contained in a single system, the future could be known.

Yep, that's how God knows it.

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Chris Vogel · Post by **Chris Vogel** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:51 pm

Bookworm wrote: Yep, that's how God knows it.

He tends to be rather tight-lipped.

I’ve actually been thinking about this subject all day, because I had nothing better to do at work. I think the future could theoretically be known, but there’s so much data to process, some of which would be altered simply by observation. A rapidly expanding civilization in a rapidly expanding universe would need to keep track of rapidly expanding data, and I don’t know if processing power would scale fast (or rapidly!

) enough.

My head hurts.

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Stasi · Post by **Stasi** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:13 pm

Chris Vogel wrote:
Bookworm wrote: Yep, that's how God knows it.

I think the future could theoretically be known, but there’s so much data to process, some of which would be altered simply by observation.

Yup, you nailed it. You'd have to have all information about everything contained in a single system that could then calculate the future for you, which will never happen. It's all theoretical, but quite fascinating nonetheless.

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flowergirlajg · Post by **flowergirlajg** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:54 pm

nice first post by tesseract eh? And boredom brought me to this post.

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Chris Vogel · Post by **Chris Vogel** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:40 pm

flowergirlajg wrote: nice first post by tesseract eh?

Yeah. I do hope he comes back.

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scherzo · Post by **scherzo** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:50 am

Stasi wrote: every piece of knowledge could be contained in a single system, the future could be known.

yes okay, this is true in the pursuit of 'knowing the future' however would the future be so clear after successful achivement of this super variable computer? i.e. wouldn't knowing the future affect your dicisions? or put it better, after you have created the thing that predicts the future, would it predict what you decide to do next now that you have made the computer.

pyscologists would say the prediction allone would affect your decisions, and therefore no matter how much technology or math is put into the machine, it would be no different than listening to an 'oricale or profet' - no more than a 'magic machine'

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tessaract · Post by **tessaract** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:26 am

well i guess it all comes down to choice...would you want to know the future and risk that future? or just live life as it is? you would need to start off with 2 magic computers. one computer to show the life you would of had and one computer to show the life you are going to have. But now that you have seen the life your going to have that starts a whole new change of thought and fate. And this is why i believe there will be no such thing as this magic computer that tells you exactly what your fate is going to be but who knows maybe there will be a computer that makes an educated guess lol. Some things will never be known and thats just the way it is.

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Stasi · Post by **Stasi** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:44 am

scherzo wrote:
Stasi wrote: every piece of knowledge could be contained in a single system, the future could be known.

yes okay, this is true in the pursuit of 'knowing the future' however would the future be so clear after successful achivement of this super variable computer? i.e. wouldn't knowing the future affect your dicisions? or put it better, after you have created the thing that predicts the future, would it predict what you decide to do next now that you have made the computer.

pyscologists would say the prediction allone would affect your decisions, and therefore no matter how much technology or math is put into the machine, it would be no different than listening to an 'oricale or profet' - no more than a 'magic machine'

There was an "if" in the sentence from which you pulled that statement... a big "if"

Quite frankly, I don't believe that it is possible to contain all knowledge in a single system. Only a god could do that, but the existence of such a being is still a mystery.

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manadren · Post by **manadren** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:56 pm

scherzo wrote:
Stasi wrote: every piece of knowledge could be contained in a single system, the future could be known.

yes okay, this is true in the pursuit of 'knowing the future' however would the future be so clear after successful achivement of this super variable computer? i.e. wouldn't knowing the future affect your dicisions? or put it better, after you have created the thing that predicts the future, would it predict what you decide to do next now that you have made the computer.

pyscologists would say the prediction allone would affect your decisions, and therefore no matter how much technology or math is put into the machine, it would be no different than listening to an 'oricale or profet' - no more than a 'magic machine'

Yeah, a kind of psychological uncertainty principle. You could never know for sure what is going to happen in the future, because in the act of observing it, you change it. You would have to be completely separated from the system to know for sure. The religious might argue that god fills this role. But since I'm not religious, I'd say it's impossible.

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scherzo · Post by **scherzo** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:57 pm

Stasi wrote:
scherzo wrote:
Stasi wrote: every piece of knowledge could be contained in a single system, the future could be known.

yes okay, this is true in the pursuit of 'knowing the future' however would the future be so clear after successful achivement of this super variable computer? i.e. wouldn't knowing the future affect your dicisions? or put it better, after you have created the thing that predicts the future, would it predict what you decide to do next now that you have made the computer.

pyscologists would say the prediction allone would affect your decisions, and therefore no matter how much technology or math is put into the machine, it would be no different than listening to an 'oricale or profet' - no more than a 'magic machine'

There was an "if" in the sentence from which you pulled that statement... a big "if" Quite frankly, I don't believe that it is possible to contain all knowledge in a single system. Only a god could do that, but the existence of such a being is still a mystery.

my mis quote was unintentional, only used to point out the irony or catch 22 that can be observed.

In truth these types of calculations and patterns and statistics are used very often. a predictable future is stable and stability leads to investment and growth.

it might just be that by building a future machine we are comitted to its prediction, to vary from its path would lead to instability and all other varibles would also react, causing the machine to 'crash'

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